Welcome to Press This, the WordPress group podcast from WMR. Right here host David Vogelpohl sits down with visitors from across the group to speak in regards to the greatest points dealing with WordPress builders. The next is a transcription of the unique recording.
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David Vogelpohl: Good day everybody and welcome to Press This, the WordPress group podcast on WMR. That is your host, David Vogelpohl. I assist the WordPress group by means of my function at WP Engine, and I like to deliver the perfect of the group to you right here each week on Press This. As a reminder, you possibly can observe me on Twitter @wpdavidv, and you may subscribe to Press This on Crimson Circle, iTunes, Spotify, or obtain the newest episodes at wmr.fm. On this episode I’m going to be chatting with somebody who additionally helps the group by means of her function at WP Engine and he or she’s going to be speaking to us about how ladies can thrive with WordPress and know-how. Becoming a member of us for this dialog. I wish to welcome Sam Munoz. Sam, Welcome.
Sam Munoz: Good day thanks a lot for having me. I’m tremendous excited to speak about ladies and WordPress and tech and all of these issues.
DV: Glorious, wonderful. So for these listening I’m right here with Sam, Sam works at WP Engine. She’s additionally the host of her personal standard podcast referred to as Making Web site Magic. And what Sam goes to share in the present day are her ideas on what the historical past of girls’s roles and know-how can educate us the chance of internet growth for ladies in search of careers and know-how and the function of WordPress in supporting that journey. So actually excited to have this dialog with you right here, Sam. And we’ll go forward and kick it off with the identical query I requested each visitor Did you briefly inform me your WordPress origin story?
SM: Yeah, so again in 2014 I feel is once I actually obtained into WordPress I feel I form of dabbled in it every so often earlier than that however I began a weblog with my cousin’s about crafting and we determined to do it on WordPress and discovered the entire issues you understand internet hosting setup, the right way to arrange a theme and all of these sorts of issues. And it was fascinating as a result of I actually actually actually loved the running a blog a part of it and the you understand, how will we make our website look and all of that very a lot much less the crafting. And so, later after that, I began one other weblog about kids’s books after which I began one other factor and it identical to, What would turned out to be the by means of line of all of that was, oh, I truly simply actually appreciated constructing web sites in WordPress. And so I used to be working as a software program developer at a bioinformatics firm and I came upon that my job was form of precarious. And possibly going to be misplaced quickly. And I made a decision to take issues into my very own arms if you’ll, and began a contract WordPress enterprise. And that was in January of 2018. And I simply saved going for nearly 5 years and yeah, that’s that was WordPress, proper. So I began actually simply within the running a blog area and really a lot determined it was in regards to the web sites that I actually loved the tech stuff, the plugins, the themes, the event a part of it that I loved most.
DV: Properly, that’s unbelievable. You understand, we’ve had a number of visitors through the years with related origin tales, you understand, being in know-how, however not essentially in quote, internet growth, entering into running a blog and your sounds actually distinctive. I feel crucial query I’ve for you I feel this entire interview was, did you name the crafting weblog just like the cousin cousin crafting nook?
SM: It was DIY Simply Cuz. I used to be form of happy with that
DM: Oh you probably did get the cousin in there! Yeah. Oh, superior. Superior. That’s intelligent. So okay, so that you’re getting it in 2014. You could have the software program growth background. You begin making these blogs and notice you actually benefit from the form of crafting of the positioning. Half and resolve to finally make a profession. So assist me perceive what you’re doing and WP Engine like what do you do there? Yeah, so
SM: I’m the group supervisor for the developer relations group. And it is a model new place throughout the firm and in addition new for me too, so I’m form of crafting it as I’m going. However the developer relations group actually is about connecting with individuals who use the instruments and advocating and having conversations you understand, supplying assist and answering questions and actually simply cultivating a group round WordPress, which is thrilling as a result of that’s one thing that’s actually pure for me anyway, it’s one thing that I’ve been doing particularly centering ladies within the podcasts that you just talked about. And so I’m actually enthusiastic about form of sinking my tooth into the WordPress group extra at giant and having a you understand, broader affect there by means of WP Engine.
DV: Glorious. That’s nice to listen to you understand, once I joined WP Engine, I used to be a part of the WordPress group. I used to be working a WordPress company previous to that, however not likely like dug in and actually contributed in massive methods and it’s been a extremely amplifier for me in that space. I hope it’s as effectively for you. You talked about your podcast that’s making web site magic. Might you briefly inform us a bit bit about that?
SM: Yeah, so the podcast I co host it with my superior co founder of creating web site magic her title’s Karen and we speak about extra of just like the enterprise and gross sales aspect of working an internet design and growth freelance enterprise particularly, once more centering ladies internet designers, and builders. So you understand, we now have a group of folks that we pull numerous content material from and we’re speaking about issues like you understand, feeling like a individuals pleaser, being too pushy, elevating your costs, issues that lots of people can connect with and relate to, however we’re actually actually taking it from the angle of being a girl in a extra male dominated area. And it’s it’s been enjoyable to have conversations with individuals who hearken to the podcast and listen to them say, oh my gosh, I utilized this tactic and impulsively, you understand, I’m reserving extra calls with individuals, I’m reserving extra initiatives. I’m feeling extra assured in my work and that form of stuff makes me really feel so excited. So yeah, that’s what the podcast is about.
DV: That sounds so unbelievable. I didn’t get an opportunity to totally hearken to episodes but, however it’s on my record. You guess. Sure. So let’s form of go extra into the subject. We form of wished to focus round right here in the present day, which is how ladies can thrive with WordPress. However I’m form of curious, like what what you’re feeling the historical past of girls in know-how may have the ability to educate us about how we must always assist ladies in know-how sooner or later.
SM: Yeah, so that is actually thrilling. Once I went to school I went to a extremely small STEM faculty referred to as Harvey Mudd School in Claremont, California in our class was like the primary class that had extra ladies than males. I feel we’re like 50%. And I attended this occasion, like Grace Hopper Celebration of girls and computing, I feel is what it’s referred to as. And discovered about so many ladies within the area and you understand, there’s like at a Lovelace, Grace Hopper, and Anita Borg, and one other one which’s actually inspirational to me is Katherine Johnson. She’s extra on just like the NASA aspect, however ladies have been part of know-how from the start. And so it is smart to proceed to perpetuate that in trendy society, if you’ll. And I simply suppose that the extra we are able to keep in mind that the roots additionally included ladies, the extra we are able to pull that in, you understand, on within the within the every day, that is smart.
DV: So you’re feeling like the numerous contributions of girls and know-how prior to now is a lesson to study in regards to the future. And the extra it looks like the extra ladies’s brains we now have working at these fascinating issues, the extra contribution we now have to fixing them. Every time you consider the challenges of the previous, although, what ought to that educate us in regards to the future?
SM: Yeah, I imply to your level, I feel that it’s actually necessary to keep in mind that it’s not solely nearly totally different genders, however usually, having numerous viewpoints. On fixing issues is highly effective as a result of everybody brings in a special perspective. And due to that, we’ll clear up issues extra effectively. We’ll see blind spots extra usually. And I feel that that’s actually necessary. I feel that that is actually onerous, as a result of on the subject of ladies in internet design and growth or in tech, it feels prefer it’s onerous to crack in or there’s a notion that it’s onerous to crack in and get your first you understand, your first footing. And so I simply really feel like that’s the it’s not a lot gatekeeping if you’ll, however it’s extra identical to reducing the barrier to entry to permit extra ladies on this area. I feel can be helpful usually.
DV: So like, I assume there’s the apparent, proper, sexual discrimination and like, being form of overtly bringing ladies down as a lesson to not do for the long run, actually. However you then’re form of additionally declaring that like there’s entrance paths are necessary. And as we consider the previous, there’s perceived problem in getting in however then there’s actual problem in getting in. And so, it sounds such as you may be implying {that a} lesson for the long run is to supply extra of these paths and to supply assist for these people. Making a leap into an space they won’t really feel comfy.
SM: Completely. And I feel that that may occur each from just like the hiring course of after which additionally the retention proper, so getting ladies within the door is superb after which additionally making them really feel protected to share their opinions and you understand, have inner issues which might be lifting them up in order that they really keep.
DV: I need to discuss a bit bit later in regards to the how organizations can focus in these areas. However you form of introduced up an fascinating level round making ladies and other people of all genders really feel welcome. And, you understand, know-how. Communities can form of ebb and circulate and the way good they’re that WordPress included. And so I need to form of discuss to you about that aspect of it for a minute. We’re going to take our first break, and we’ll be proper again.
DV: Everybody welcome again to press this the WordPress group podcast on wMR. That is your host, David Vogelpohl. I’m speaking with Sam Munoz, about how ladies can thrive with WordPress cm proper earlier than the break you had been speaking a bit bit about a few of the parts of how the historical past of girls in know-how can educate us in regards to the future. The notion of the form of amplifying impact of getting numerous totally different viewpoints, fixing issues, the contributions of girls prior to now after which additionally a few of the challenges and one of many key challenges you talked about was this entry go which we’re gonna get to right here in a bit. And I need to get to get again to the sensation welcome half. Do you suppose you understand, what are there numerous digital and in individual communities and WordPress? What might these communities or know-how communities at giant do to make ladies really feel welcomed and supportive?
SM: I feel that it’s each creating an area the place they really feel seen, however then additionally having ladies and once more, numerous voices usually main conversations. I feel that that there’s there are occasions once I like you understand, see a convention, for instance, and also you see just like the speaker’s record and it feels very one sided, if you’ll one perspective, simply you understand, notion smart, and so having extra ladies truly in management in talking positions in internet hosting positions for various issues, I feel, is one other option to make them really feel welcome past simply saying like, hey, there’s a bunch of girls right here. Does that make sense?
DV: It does it’s that notion of illustration. And it makes acute sense to me as a result of I interviewed Mike Liddell and Anita Carter, and Sandy Jackson, in regards to the contributions and challenges of black group and WordPress. And that was one thing they introduced up as effectively. And it was this notion that if you happen to didn’t see somebody that you just felt you recognized with in a extra materials approach, that it virtually created this sense of not feeling welcomed for you, even when the individuals in attendance, you understand, didn’t have that intent. And I don’t know if that’s that’s much like what you’re saying, however it did resonate with me from that prior interview.
SM: Yeah. Can I say one thing else about that, truly, please. So I feel that what’s actually, actually necessary and it is a private private viewpoint, is I by no means need to be employed as a result of I’m a girl, proper? I don’t need to be employed for notion or for some quota. I need to be employed as a result of I’m superior. I need to be, you understand, invited into an organization as a result of I’m nice at what I do. I need to be, you understand, booked by a consumer as a result of they respect my experience. And I additionally occur to be a girl. And so it’s actually about like, casting like a large sufficient web. So that you just even have numerous individuals making use of for issues after which you possibly can nonetheless, you understand, rent based mostly off the perfect expertise however then you will have a various vary of individuals to select from.
DV: And also you’re queuing in on a extremely necessary level right here, which is that as phrases contemplate the right way to have extra numerous illustration that tokenization is one thing that they need to contemplate avoiding, and slightly to solid the vast web of candidates. Are you pulling from the proper or from a various set of swimming pools of audio system? Are you broadcasting and selling to numerous audiences to draw new audio system? These are the sorts of stuff you imply by casting a large web. I don’t know if that’s true, or you probably have different concepts, however what do you suppose on that scene?
SM: That’s completely what I’m saying attain extra individuals in order that extra individuals have the chance to sit down to lift their hand. As a result of if we proceed to only you understand, goal one particular group, then that’s that’s all that may come. And once more, this this is applicable throughout the board audio system, hiring, working your individual enterprise. And I feel yeah, the extra we are able to permit simply to unfold our arms vast and the proper individuals will come and it’ll be nice as a result of then we’ll have all kinds of individuals in our will signify the world at giant.
DV: I can attest to that technique, being very profitable at delivering good content material and work and form of improve success casting the broader web. Now, I feel if you solid the broader web, you understand, there’s additionally that form of side of like, okay, effectively how will we how will we get extra ladies concerned and contributing and know-how and I’m simply curious, as we take into consideration you form of talked about offering these avenues by offering assist. Do you suppose that internet design and growth signify a singular alternative for ladies, ladies eager to study know-how and if that’s the case, do you suppose WordPress helps in some distinctive approach?
SM: I feel it does. I feel it does contribute to ladies, with the ability to once more, form of identical to get that entry level as a result of it feels very accessible within the sense that like, you possibly can log on and learn to do that proper? You’ll be able to go take free lessons. There are such a lot of alternatives. There’s so many mentors, that particularly ladies mentors, rising in tech, which is superior, too, as a result of nothing feels higher than I’ve been feeling like this individual like I can, they will seize my hand and assist me by means of within the studying course of. After which on the subject of WordPress specifically, the particularly the best way WordPress is transferring, there are such a lot of methods to to study and what I imply by the best way WordPress is transferring is issues like block editor, full website enhancing, and so on. That makes it once more really feel a bit bit extra accessible to get your ft moist. After which if you wish to get into the deeper code stuff, if you wish to are you aware plugin growth, if you wish to do theme growth, all of that and actually dig into the code you possibly can however it provides you an entry level. After which you possibly can go deeper from there and I simply I really like that. And once more, that applies throughout the board, not simply ladies specifically, anybody that desires to get into the online design and growth area. I truly suppose that WordPress isn’t such a superb option to simply get began.
DV: You understand, Sam, that is the 245 episode of this podcast I’ve finished took it over from Yoast a variety of years in the past. And I’ve heard so many origin tales through the years. And also you’re proper about that entry level even interested by your individual story and the way you mentioned that you just had been in software program growth you had been in know-how. However running a blog is what obtained you . Properly after all somebody with a non know-how background also can get into these kinds of actions in WordPress and you actually form of painted that journey effectively that folk take which is I’m doing one thing for enjoyable or curiosity or no matter it was. After which I noticed I like doing that factor. Simply the message I used to be attempting to get out. After which essentially turning that into your profession. I imply, it undoubtedly resonates for me, is that one thing you uncover so much with of us you communicate with in your podcast or in any other case?
SM: Sure, completely. And it’s very a lot that I feel that the most important factor that I hear is I clear up issues for individuals in my life. And due to that, I noticed hey, I’m truly actually good at this factor. And so I made a decision to make it into enterprise. Like everyone comes from me when or involves me after they need assistance with X factor. And due to this fact, I’ve turned it right into a enterprise so it’s each like from a ardour place, however then additionally from like, that is simply what I naturally gravitate in the direction of. This can be a power. And I’m gonna flow, if you’ll.
DV: Yeah, I actually appreciated the way you additionally referred to as out that mentorship half earlier and I’m glad to see it getting stronger. I’ve actually buddies who’ve benefited from that through the years, together with somebody named Ray Hoffman, who was actually that no know-how job in any respect was in a really tough spot in your life. She’s talked about this publicly. So I’m not like revealing new stuff. However she discovered some boards, individuals who had been constructing it optimizing websites and he or she obtained studying and was in a position to make a really profitable profession out of it. And so I’m undecided if she used WordPress for that within the very starting, however she was very, very technical. And so it does really feel prefer it gives a singular path. Do you’re feeling like that mentorship aspect is possibly a bit stronger in WordPress, I’ve frolicked in varied know-how communities through the years and I do really feel like WordPress is admittedly good about that aspect.
SM: Properly, I do suppose that it’s like within the nature of WordPress. Being open supply and simply the best way that it’s it fosters group, proper? We’re constructing one thing collectively. And so there’s a pure relationship constructing that occurs. And I feel mentorship is only one part of that. That makes it really feel very like anyone’s welcome right here at WordPress.
DV: So you understand, typically although, in these communities and there was even some tweets about this the day earlier than our recording about and a few individuals being lower than pleasant to ladies in some Fb teams. What how ought to group managers take into consideration that when it happens? After which we’ll go into our subsequent break.
SM: That’s such a very good query. I used to be additionally saying related issues on the market. And I feel that it’s actually identical to a matter of reminding folks that what we’re doing is one thing that everyone has entry to. There isn’t any one group that owns WordPress, all of us do.
DV: That’s a wonderful mind-set about it and so true, and also you have a look at all the varied folks that contribute and WordPress occasions and I feel WordPress has made nice strides in supporting gender range and in range writ giant, and I feel there’s nonetheless extra work to do and so I need to form of bridge now into just like the work to do half and possibly it’s group organizers, however I’m pondering possibly extra of us working firms or groups and pondering usually about gender range and the way you may take into consideration approaching that, however we’re gonna take our final break and we’ll be proper again.
DV: Good day, everybody. Welcome again to press this WordPress group podcast on WMR. We’re interviewing Sam Munoz about how ladies can thrive with WordPress Sam proper earlier than the break, we had been speaking a bit bit about how internet design and growth WordPress specifically is usually a very significant begin for ladies in studying know-how and beginning know-how careers. We form of talked a bit bit in regards to the power of the group however I form of need to now shift again to what organizations can do. And so particularly, how ought to organizations take into consideration their technique for both attracting extra ladies engineers to their groups, but in addition creating that expertise from inside? What what can of us be doing to drive in the direction of these outcomes?
SM: I really like this query. As a result of this actually is on the coronary heart of one among my like private missions, which is seeing ladies not solely enter however keep within the area. That’s the that’s the keys keep on this area and develop. And I feel that it’s issues like seeing ladies and noticing their expertise and their skills. And for pondering let’s take it from two views. So we’re interested by pulling individuals in once more, we talked about this earlier on the podcast casting a large sufficient web the place you will have expertise throughout the board, paying ladies effectively, whether or not it’s you understand as an organization, hiring individuals, or if you’re a consumer hiring a girl Freelancer paying her effectively, as a result of if we are able to’t maintain ourselves financially, we are able to’t keep on this area interval. After which on the subject of retention, creating inner areas the place ladies will be themselves and in addition, I need you you mentioned primarily like educating from inside. I feel like, once more, seeing if anybody in a company has an curiosity in creating expertise and noticing these strengths after which permitting them to domesticate them. I don’t even suppose that that’s like a gender particular factor. I feel identical to managers seeing like, wow, this individual not solely is like nice at their core job, however they really have all these different strengths. How can we construct extra into that and permitting them to, you understand, elevate themselves within the ranks, if you’ll? I feel that that’s actually worthwhile. And I feel that that’s one thing that simply might be useful usually is having individuals who have individuals below them simply noticing noticing the place they’re thriving and the place they’re doing effectively after which additionally listening for you understand, the areas the place they’re like, Hey, I’m nervous. I’m scared I’m fearful in these areas.
DV: Yeah, that seeing noticing isn’t the identical sentence however you’re later mentioned and listening, I feel actually stand out to me after which even interested by my very own skilled growth, gauging engagements with ladies I’ve had on my group prior to now that listening half is so important, and I undoubtedly determine technical expertise simply by asking the query, it’s such an necessary a part of it. Clearly, hitting on the casting a large web once more, tremendous necessary there. After which I prefer to you form of underpinned the form of paying ladies effectively and pay fairness half. I feel that’s an element. A number of of us don’t actually take into consideration an excessive amount of. And, you understand, we frequently are hiring managers lacking. It’s labored at WP Engine, we now have a really balanced and truthful pay construction, however oftentimes what’s going to occur is of us will say like, Properly, what did you earn in your final job after which make it a bit bit higher? For the brand new supply? And you may even be inheriting pay fairness points from prior employers like that. So it’s crucial factor to keep watch over is that across the space, what you had been suggesting there?
SM: Completely. And I do need to say additionally when it comes to like taking private accountability for advocating for ourselves. So if you happen to’re a girl, internet designer, developer listening to this, it’s actually you understand, how can I be sure that I do know my strengths, really feel assured in my very own expertise in order that once I go into, you understand, the chance to have a brand new place, or if I’m speaking to a possible consumer, I do know the worth that I present, and I can be sure that I’m being paid accordingly. There’s a stage of you understand, self advocacy that needs to be concerned in that too. And once more, like areas could make that may make that really feel extra protected to do and we are able to additionally develop in our personal confidence to go in there and say, yep, I’m value this. And I gained’t take something lower than that.
DV: That’s very sound recommendation. I feel probably the most rampid enterprise downside in freelancing is undercharging undoubtedly can see the place if you happen to had been form of getting overconfidence. points. That may be extra acute. I actually respect you form of sharing that perspective on that. This has been extremely, extremely illuminating for me. And I feel additionally our listeners. Yeah, this was superior. Thanks.
SM: Thanks a lot for having me. I so respect it. It was an exquisite dialog.
DV: After all, after all we’ll must have you ever again and good luck in your new job and serving to to drive WordPress ahead. And if you happen to’d prefer to study extra about what Sam is as much as, you possibly can go to makingwebsitemagic.com to take a look at her podcast. And naturally you possibly can test her out on Twitter at HelloSamMunoz . Thanks everybody for listening to press this the WordPress group podcast on WMR. Once more, this has been your host David Vogelpohl. I assist the WordPress group by means of my function at WP Engine and I like to deliver the perfect of the group to you right here each week on Press This.
