Welcome to Press This, the WordPress neighborhood podcast from WMR. Every episode options friends from across the neighborhood and discussions of the most important points going through WordPress builders. The next is a transcription of the authentic recording.
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Doc Pop: You’re listening to Press This, a WordPress neighborhood podcast on WMR. Every week, we highlight members of the WordPress neighborhood. I’m your host, Doc Pop, I assist the WordPress neighborhood by way of my function at WP Engine and my contributions over on TorqueMag.io. You possibly can subscribe to Press This on Pink Circle, iTunes, Spotify, or you may obtain episodes straight at wmr.fm.
Headless WordPress is a giant matter within the WordPress scene as of late. However many people like myself would possibly nonetheless be a bit of scared off once we hear the time period headless. And never simply because it’s close to Halloween and we get creeped out for that. I believe it’s time to recover from this worry. So I’ve requested Fran Agulto, a Developer Advocate at WP Engine to assist me perceive the professionals and cons of headless. Fran, how’re you doing as we speak?
Fran Agulto: Oh Doc, thanks for having me. And sure, you’re proper it’s Halloween however we will not be scared as a result of the Headless Horseman is right here. Sure, I’m doing simply positive as we speak. Thanks.
DP: Superior. , I’m gonna begin off for those who may simply inform us what’s your WordPress origin story? How did you get into this area?
FA: Nice query. Really, my WordPress origin story funnels by way of WP Engine. After I first began in search of a job in tech, I had no coding expertise. I really solely had touched one WordPress web site as soon as in my life and that was again in faculty. And I used to be simply making a shift attempting to get into tech.
Properly, WP Engine was hiring for gross sales representatives. So I obtained on board with WP Engine on the gross sales facet of issues with WordPress not on the technical facet beginning.
In order that’s my origin story. I obtained by way of WP engine on the gross sales facet of issues and you already know by way of their coaching right here at WP Engine, for those who’re extra on the gross sales and advertising facet, they provide the complete type of spiel on what WordPress is as a CMS and as a administration system, if you’ll.
DP: Yeah. And so that you and I have been speaking at WordCamp US in San Diego, and I do know that headless is a giant factor for you. What’s your present function at WP Engine and the way does that type of tie in with headless WordPress?
FA: Yeah, in order that’s a great query. My present function right here is Developer Advocate, Degree Two, on the headless developer relations crew right here at WP Engine, and it ties into headless WordPress. With the developer relations crew at WP Engine, there are two sides of the home, Doc.
There’s the standard WordPress facet of the home which most people that use WordPress are accustomed to, if not all. After which there’s the headless facet of the home, which I’m advocating for on my finish. And that’s what I do. I basically simply write weblog put up technical articles and YouTube movies on coding and how one can not be scared off, if you’ll, as you have been saying in your intro of adapting this system.
DP: Properly, you already know, we’re speaking about being scared and we’re going to attempt to maintain this, you already know, sincere and discuss concerning the professionals and cons of headless. I suppose let’s begin off with simply the professionals of headless by way of WordPress. What involves thoughts if you consider these?
FA: Yeah, so there’s really three essential positives or professionals if you’ll, Doc, on why individuals, organizations, small to medium companies, businesses, go and adapt headless WordPress. The very first thing is pace. Proper? As a result of from a person expertise standpoint, all people is aware of in internet improvement that when you’ve got a gradual web site, guess what it’s going to bounce, your customers. Bye, bye. So you already know, you need these tremendous quick, speedy websites that basically give an important person expertise and up these Google Core Net Vitals.
That’s one of many professionals of headless WordPress, is as a substitute of a monolithic, conventional WordPress server facet rendering mechanism that’s what WordPress does is on upon each request. If you’re a person visiting a web site, it takes a spherical journey. It goes to the server, the PHP runs the code after which sends the HTML again to the browser so that you can eat. Now, once more, you may pace up conventional WordPress, however at its core on the headless facet out of the field, if you decouple WordPress and simply eat it as an API layer and have static information on a CDN information already pre constructed, it’s quick.
That’s the before everything professional, Doc, after which the second is safety. And the explanation for that’s if you decouple any internet utility or web site it doesn’t need to be headless WordPress, your again finish is hidden. Proper? Most individuals which can be savvy with tech, and would possibly have the ability to decipher if you’re utilizing WordPress received’t even know for those who’re utilizing WordPress except you’re exposing your surroundings variables in your repository.
After which the second factor, why it’s most secure as a result of the floor space of assault is that a lot much less, basically, as a result of if you decouple, you’re on a entrance finish framework that’s accountable now as a substitute of the PHP of rendering the HTML within the browser, and it’s only a decrease floor space of assault as a result of there’s a lot nefariousness you are able to do in a browser.
After which the third and final one, basically is the longer term proofing of your tech stack. What I imply by that’s with headless WordPress if you decouple your tech stack, you’re taking what’s referred to as the API pushed improvement strategy or methodology. And that approach, prefer it’s a lot simpler to not solely have your customers entry your web site or internet utility by way of a desktop browser, however a kiosk, a display screen in a Tesla, a cell app, it’s simply a lot simpler to eat that WordPress information after which throw it on any type of like, node that your person goes to make use of. In order that’s the professionals of it.
DP: Okay, yeah, that’s fascinating. Now there’s a pair that come to thoughts for me and I don’t have a headless web site, I haven’t experimented with headless, I do use WordPress. You possibly can let me know if that is proper. Properly first off content material administration for those who’re utilizing WordPress and also you’re utilizing a headless you may level it to you already know, no matter internet app or no matter you wish to do. That content material administration facet being pre constructed, you already know with WordPress is obtained to be tremendous clean. Anyone no matter their information of how one can use a web site or how one can construct a web site they may very simply go in. The identical benefits simply WordPress generally. They’ll go in and write their weblog put up and type of publish it tremendous straightforward, proper?
FA: That’s really 100% right. Sure. You’ve nailed you’ve nailed that. Yep. In a abstract, Doc, you nailed it. Yep.
DP: After which I suppose different issues that come to thoughts that you simply didn’t point out, it was type of like checking to see, it looks like for those who’re constructing headless WordPress, I is perhaps incorrect on this nevertheless it looks like you’re gonna have a variety of instruments due to all of the plugins that folks have made obtainable, that you simply’ll have the ability to combine, except there’s some motive you may’t try this with headless. But it surely kind of looks like you possibly can in all probability get like a variety of search engine marketing plugins or no matter. And really shortly, all of the WordPress ecosystem is at your fingertips, even for those who’re constructing headless does that sound correct?
FA: One of many precise cons of headless WordPress is on the WordPress facet of issues, Doc. Particularly plugins, clearly, that will render or manipulate or change your entrance finish. You possibly can overlook that. That won’t work in a headless style. And, actually, I might say most WordPress plugins don’t work in a headless sense.
What you’re going to have to make use of to have a parody or comparability, what a plugin is to the standard WordPress developer within the entrance finish ecosystem of Node JS and frameworks like React, Vue Angular, you might have NPM packages, which stands for node bundle supervisor. And for those who’re a WordPress developer, these are what plugins are on the entrance finish ecosystem that you simply’re going to need to get accustomed to and use.
DP: , I believe that’s an important spot to cease for a minute. We’re going to take a fast break and once we come again, we’re speaking with Fran Agulto concerning the professionals, and we’ll get again and we’ll discuss concerning the cons of headless WordPress. You’re listening to Press This.
DP: You’re listening to Press This a WordPress neighborhood podcast on WMR. This week we’re speaking to Fran Agulto, a Developer Advocate at WP Engine. We’re speaking concerning the professionals and cons of headless and why it is best to or shouldn’t be petrified of headless WordPress.
To date, we’ve coated the professionals which merely are sooner loading. You’re saying that headless WordPress is simply tremendous snappy. Safety, not making it clear what the positioning is constructed on? You’re not getting hackers, any of that data, it’s type of simply entrance going through.
Future proofing. I discussed content material administration, after which we obtained into cons and also you have been simply saying most plugins don’t work. Statistically talking, you’re simply type of saying you’re feeling that the majority WordPress plugins are in all probability not going to work with headless and I’m guessing that’s as a result of most of these plugins are in all probability designed with like entrance finish type of adjustments.
FA: Yeah, that’s 100% right. Sure. The actual fact of the matter is, if any plugin within the conventional WordPress sense is made to make some type of alteration to the entrance finish, it’s not going to work as a result of the entire concept is you’ve decoupled the entrance finish in order that breaks. That’ll break in conventional WordPress, or in headless WordPress, excuse me.
Nevertheless, Doc, right here’s the factor, any WordPress plugin that solely does one thing on the backend. Proper? Like, Doc, I’m positive you’re accustomed to Superior Customized Fields, which helps you create customized content material sorts. And there’s Yoast search engine marketing for WPGraphQL which is a headless WordPress plugin. These issues work as a result of individuals have written PHP code to increase these plugins to have the ability to be built-in with a headless strategy, if that is smart.
DP: Yeah. So let’s discuss another cons of doing headless WordPress.
FA: Oh, yeah, there’s many. [laugher]
DP: Oh effectively, okay. [Laughter] Properly we obtained like seven minutes. What sort of involves thoughts, what’s the perhaps the largest con that somebody’s fascinated about going headless they might not wish to really do it due to this con?
FA: Yeah, right here’s the factor, man, I inform you. I used to be at WordCamp US, actually, I met you over there, Doc, and I used to be speaking to lots of people who simply got here up and randomly requested me this query. The actual fact of the matter is, at its core, and why it was invented, WordPress is so easy, it’s WYSIWYG, “What you see is what you get.” Proper? And I gotta inform you, my mother, and my very own sister, they know how one can use WordPress. My mother just isn’t technical in any respect. However she is aware of how one can get into WP admin and simply write some content material in a block. And she or he goes, “Oh, look, it’s reside on a URL.”
The primary concern or con, if you’ll, is the educational curve and barrier of entry to this strategy, actually. As a result of primary, you’re going to need to be savvy and fluent in JavaScript. That’s primary. Okay, that requires coding.
DP: Ooh. My coronary heart’s beating. [laughter]
FA: Doc, belief me after I first enrolled in my JavaScript boot camp, my coronary heart was beating out of my chest. In order that’s the very first thing. That’s the before everything factor that’s the con of this factor is is that there’s not solely a technical debt that you simply’re going to accrue as a result of for those who don’t comprehend it, you’re gonna need to pay a JavaScript developer now to keep up your WordPress weblog for those who go headless, proper. For those who’re utilizing WooCommerce as a enterprise and also you wish to go headless on it, you’re gonna have to contemplate procuring a crew now, who can code in JavaScript for those who can’t, that’s the primary factor. That’s the primary factor.
The second factor, the main con of it, is the hole or the bridge between, and I believe some of these things we’re really fixing at WP Engine, which is superior. And I’m not simply saying this. I really like WP Engine, I work right here however I can select the place I wish to work. We’re fixing the problem of the truth that when you might have a advertising crew or a content material editor in your group, or no matter it’s you’re utilizing WordPress for, they’re used to going into WordPress, within the block editor, writing down content material, typing content material in, hitting both that preview button in order that it may see what it’s going to appear to be reside on the URL, or simply hitting publish and seeing it reside.
Sadly, that’s not the case in headless WordPress. You additionally need to configure and manipulate issues which WP Engine is fixing for out of the field. To ensure that that bridge, if you’ll, Doc, to work. In order that content material editors shall be extra accustomed to the workflow. As a result of it’s a decoupled headless, if you’ll, workflow if you go disattached like that. So these are the 2 essential essential cons of it. Is the complexity, and you then basically have to rent coders. After which guess what, what you’re used to on the WYSIWYG needs to be configured and there’s issues that it’s a must to wire up now so as to replicate that.
DP: So I believe what I’m listening to is that after I go to my WordPress web site and I make a change, I hit refresh, or no matter, I am going to the web site, hit refresh, and that change is there. And with headless historically, you’re going to need to do a number of extra steps than simply hitting refresh. Is that what you’re saying?
FA: 100% Yep, that’s 100% right. Yeah. Yep.
DP: And also you’re mentioning what you’re working with WP Engine. I’m assuming that’s Atlas?
FA: Sure, that’s Atlas. Appropriate. That’s the shameless plug, all people. However that’s what I used to be referring to is how WP Engine is fixing for this. We’ve basically taken the developer toil, I wish to name it, of the ache steak of getting to wire all that up that I simply instructed you about, Doc.
So now if I’m a developer and my firm or my crew or I’m in an company and the company goes, “Fran, it’s a must to code this web site. The proprietor of the positioning desires to make use of WordPress as their CMS however they wish to go headless for the professionals of it.”
With the Atlas platform, Doc, inside two or three clicks, you’re configured and it permits that content material editor to be like, “Oh man, wow. I can hit preview or publish. And it’s basically the identical work flows as I used to be utilizing in a conventional WordPress sense. However now it’s headless. And I don’t even need to find out about it.” As a result of it’s basically a parody. It’s the identical movement. That’s what WP Engine has solved for.
DP: And so let’s simply recap the professionals and cons another time. So we’ve stated the professionals are sooner loading safety, future proofing, content material administration’s going to be simpler.
The cons, it appears like most plugins will in all probability not work so that you received’t have essentially the total ecosystem however you’ll have components of it. And as effectively, simply in a broad sense, for those who’re constructing a headless WordPress web site, then likelihood is you’re gonna need to know JavaScript, you’re gonna need to know type of how one can, when you’ve created that content material, how one can type of like push that so it goes reside. It’s not only a one click on course of and that’s type of reside.
FA: 100% Yeah, you basically have to enter a command line, a terminal, it’s a must to take care of repositories and testing branches. Yeah. So there’s a fancy studying curve.
DP: Properly, I believe that’s a great place to take a break. And once we come again, we’ll discuss how one can recover from these fears, when you’ve got them. For those who do wish to be doing headless WordPress, how one can type of recover from them. And you already know, it’s type of wrapping up on this episode, so keep tuned for extra with Fran Agulto.
DP: You’re listening to Press This, a WordPress neighborhood podcast on WMR. Every week we highlight members of the WordPress neighborhood and this week we’re speaking to Fran Agulto, a Developer Advocate at WP Engine about headless WordPress, which sounds nice as a result of it’s type of the time of the 12 months to be scared. And you already know, earlier than the present, Fran, you and I have been speaking about mountain climbing. And I’m simply type of curious, like with mountain climbing, have been you petrified of heights if you first began?
FA: Oh, I imply, sure I used to be. I positively had a greater than wholesome worry of heights, Doc, let’s simply say.
DP: A wholesome worry, yeah. And I’m simply type of questioning if there’s any classes there. Perhaps this can be a stretch. Is there any type of classes there to type of the way you felt and the way you overcame it with how some individuals is perhaps nervous. They in all probability have an utility that will be you already know, they in all probability ought to be doing headless WordPress, however they’re simply nervous about making that soar. What crossovers do you might have from like, your climbing days that you possibly can convey over.
FA: yeah, that’s really a great analogy, if you’ll. Right here’s the factor, proper. On the finish of the day, most worry I believe, Doc, and it pertains to internet improvement, to mountain climbing, which is why this can be a good analogy and even like, being married or having children, no matter you’re doing in life. Concern is generally due to unknown and unfamiliarity. People worry issues which can be unfamiliar.
However guess what? That worry will get lessened, the extra you’re used to one thing, so let’s take a step again right here. WordPress. Doc, you’ve been within the WordPress sport longer than I’ve. I imply, I’ve been coping with WordPress for 4 years now. How lengthy have you ever been within the WordPress sport?
DP: Like 4 years in a month. [laughter]
FA: Oh 4 years and a month. So we’re even.
DP: No, I’m a month forward! [Laughter} No, it’s like 12 years I think working with WordPress companies and stuff like that.
FA: Okay.
DP: So yeah, it’s a while.
FA: So here’s the thing. The reason why it’s the most beloved CMS and it’s like, I don’t know 35-40% of the internet. I didn’t stay for Matt Mullenweg’s State of WordPress at WordCamp, I got busy. But WordPress is huge. And there’s a reason for that. It came out early and gained familiarity with its ease of use. Okay, so people are just comfortable with it.
The parody I want to make with rock climbing is, I was in fear of it because obviously heights are heights. But if you understand the protection that you have as you’re rock climbing, it lessens that fear because you’re used to a certain flow. And that’s exactly how I got into and stayed in, advocating for headless WordPress, and passing that JavaScript boot camp to be honest with because every day was fearful. I’m like, Is my code gonna break today? And what am I even doing with this? But that’s the thing, right?
Is that from an adaption standpoint, and that’s why WP Engine is so invested in this is because at the end of the day with web development and the internet, the future is decoupled API driven development. And we don’t want WordPress to be an age old technology that nobody uses anymore. We want to bring it along with the so-called jamstack, if you will, which is a tech buzzword, but it stands for JavaScript API markup. At the end of the day. It just means hey, you have an API endpoint, which is in this case, WordPress. And then we’re going to consume that data out of WordPress onto whatever front end you want to use.
Now, from a flow perspective, I think, Doc, honestly especially with what WP Engine is doing and how people are just adapting this. Once it gains traction, and, our Developer Relations Team are helping lessen the barrier of entry and get people more enabled on this, and understand what exactly they’re getting into. And, again, it’s not for everybody, but to your point, if it’s something that’s needed, if it’s like, oh my god, diagnosis wise, your site should be a headless WordPress site. Yeah, there’s definitely a normality that you need to have to lessen that fear.
DP: Absolutely. Well, we’ve been talking with Fran Agulto, Developer Advocate at WP Engine today about headless and this was a great conversation. If you’d like to follow up and learn more about what Fran is working on, you can follow him on Twitter, @fran_the_dev.
Upcoming episodes of Press This we’re going to be talking to Nev Harris next week to talk about how to recession proof your WordPress agency. Thanks for listening to Press This WordPress community podcast on WMR. You can follow my adventures with Torque magazine over on Twitter @thetorquemag or you can go to torquemag.io where we contribute tutorials and videos and interviews like this every day. So check out torquemag.io or follow us on Twitter. You can subscribe to Press This on Red Circle, iTunes, Spotify, or you can download it directly at wmr.fm each week. I’m your host Doctor Popular I support the WordPress community through my role at WP Engine. And I love to spotlight members of the community each and every week on Press This.
